Shamanism

A forum to discuss the more arcane side of FOTN. If you want a more serious discussion on FOTN then you'll find it here.

Moderators: Morphic, Blue Angel, The Fallen Ones

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gingerpazuzu
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Re: Shamanism

Post by gingerpazuzu » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:37 pm

Lord Mureth wrote:Seriously, isn't it about time there was another subsection of the forum? One that actually allows the folk that want to discuss the more 'arcane' side of FOTN to do so, without the 'mystical bollocks' crowd jumping down their throats every time they open their mouths?

The occult certainly is just as much a part of FOTN fandom and interest as tower-building, collecting, flour, carnage, the horn, dry ice and cowboy hats; and to be honest it pisses me off the way that virtually ANY form of 'occult' discussion on here is automatically shouted down and ends up in the same old shit-fight.

As for myself, I understand only a tiny bit of what the more mysticallllybollcked minded folk are talking about; but just because I don't understand, doesn't mean that I don't want to know.

A closed mind is a closed behind. :shock:




*notworthy* *notworthy* *notworthy* Well said! Surely the forum should reflect everyone's taste.

This is descending in into really nasty territory,I've said it before if a thread doesnt hold any interest for you ignore it,theres plenty of other stuff being posted.How about a little give + take,we dont all like the same things ,diversity + respect for that is only fair.
For those who want to discuss the more mystical + esoteric sides of FOTN LET their be threads for that so it can be discused by thoises who want to + for thoses who dont then avoid it,lets all be adult about this.
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Morphic
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Morphic » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:46 am

RIGHT!!

A nice positive new start....

Here's the man himself on TV talking about Paganism & Shamanism...

CLICK HERE: YouTube: Carl McCoy discusses Paganism & Shamanism

Any band that lists Crowley in their 'bibliography' is gonna get people talking about the Occult...

It might not be to everyone's taste and it certainly isn't going to have much bearing on the pub banter, followed by the mosh-pit and tower building, but who could deny Carl McCoy's interest in Numerology???! ...And the ensuing frustration that his music can't be released unless there's a full moon and a Z in the month!!!! :roll: *whistle*



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And also, here's a recent post on the subject that may be of interest to some of you, but was part of a thread that had to be locked due to unpleasant circumstances. That does not mean, however, that some of the info herein might not still be of interest:
Bau wrote:I woke up last night and there was this show on about these ancient cave paintings of 'humanimals' and a study this man did about them. He connected them to shamanism and showed an aboriginal shamans fire dance and they talked about the trance state from it and stuff. It was very fascinating watching it as I've done that! I realy never knew thats what it was I was doing tee hee :)

They said the paintings represent a shamans vision, but they didn't have interpretation as what it meant. It had a dying animal and then a humanimal representation of the animal holding the tail of the animal in the same pose. Mabee it represented a shamanistic death ritual or something. But my interpretation, because of what the shaman said about the fire dance using it to reach into the spirit world to heal, was of a shaman becoming the animal spirit to heal the dying one, pull it back from the spirit world by its tail. :wink:

It was very fascinating the interview with the shaman, what he was saying stuff I could realy identify with, and the footage of the dance , how they worked up a chant first etc. watching this also reminded me of an intense fire dance I did some time ago to the Fallen version of 'trees come down' as I stoked my fire. it just seemed the perfect song for that purpose. *cthulhu* Ive noticed they just posted the song on myspace.

besides the obvious slant of the lyrics, I think it was the rhythmic quality of the song that attracts me to, the original version of the song has those tribal sounding drums. Psychonaut sounds very 'tribal' to me also and with the chanting, the vid, shamanism obvious in that song. I've noticed the key use of drums that sound 'shamanistic' and other elements in certain songs, the single drum punctuation on Requiem in particular comes to mind, reminds me of how native americans use 'spirit drums'

http://www.sunreed.com/NativeAmericanDrums.htm

I've been looking at a lot of 'world' instrument and music recently. here is an instrument that I find fascinating, the idea of being inside it I find erotic :P

http://www.harmonicwindharps.com/harmonic.htm

the droning sound of these instruments reminds me of certain things like the underlying sound in Last exit for the Lost for example.


Anyone with suggestion on these types of 'shamanic' elements and references they've noticed in some of the other FOTN songs?
Enjoy!
And after all this? Nothing. Nothing at all.
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Echo Barley
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Echo Barley » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:18 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanic_music

http://www.hulu.de/en/trance_siberia/mu ... manism.htm

Two very interesting articles. ( btw, I thought being interested in the Occult was par for the course for a Neph fan, even more than dressing in black and liking graveyards......)
Of all the paths I could have followed, shamanism seems to be the least structured, most accessible one. By that I don't mean the easiest - I mean, that you don't have to believe in anything other than other planes. I find it very easy to slip into trance listening to Psychonaut; no other Neph song has that effect. Perhaps it was the only one intended to achieve that ?

Windharps: can't afford one. But I did set up a range of bottles with varying volumes of water in them, that produces a similar sound. No trance-like effects though.

There's too much out there that is pure territory of the spirit for me to discount something as "rubbish", merely "not my thing". But there's a lot of scorn for people who say they have had OBEs, or can remember past lives, or who claim to have spoken with Gods. Yet Tarot and Horoscopes are accepted, and so are prophetic dreams. One set marks you psychic, the other, insane and delusional. One day I'll find out why, until then......gotta go, off to Never-never Land, ta-ra.
*cthulhu*
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d00mw0lf
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Re: Shamanism

Post by d00mw0lf » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:37 pm

Can we not just agree that some FotN fans are into different things than other FotN fans? It's not actually a "who's the bestest fan ever" competition!

If you're into the paganism/shamanism/occult/whatever else stuff - that's fine with me. If you think it's all bollocks - that's a-ok with me too! I think a separate board is an ace idea. If you don't like it, avoid the new board!

Huzzah!
They've left the Elysian fields behind and bought a Barratt's Home
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ThomasB
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Re: Shamanism

Post by ThomasB » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:31 pm

d00mw0lf wrote: If you're into the paganism/shamanism/occult/whatever else stuff - that's fine with me. If you think it's all bollocks - that's a-ok with me too! I think a separate board is an ace idea. If you don't like it, avoid the new board!
Agreed ! *notworthy* *notworthy* *notworthy* *notworthy*
I'm a true skeptic. I can accept everything as long as it's laid before me and most things I won't dismiss straight away, evenb if I have my doubts. And I know LOTS of folks who are into occult (for lack of a better world) stuff and deal with it in a very straightforward way, investigating it and all, without having anything to prove to anyone.
To me the stupid approach would be to be a perfect rationalist, dismissing everything, or believing in ghosts' n ghoulies and all that jazz. As if there was nothing in between !!!!!
Is that the way you meant it mate ???
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IN NOMINE NEMO !
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NorthernNephilim
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Re: Shamanism

Post by NorthernNephilim » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:38 pm

Became truly interest of reading such stuff, sometimes hard to understand but also nice to discover. I must say after i read some parts in works from the above (originals are expensive, but enough reprints availiable, or i know a nice source where you get PDF´or djvu files of them) it get´s you a bit better to understand some things like Psyconaut or so on...
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d00mw0lf
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Re: Shamanism

Post by d00mw0lf » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:42 pm

ThomasB wrote: Is that the way you meant it mate ???
I guess so!
I just want everybody to be happy!
They've left the Elysian fields behind and bought a Barratt's Home
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Morphic
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Morphic » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:41 am

Please check above... I've added a few choice sections from other discussions on the subject that probably needed to be separated from the recent maelstrom...

Enjoy!

*smoking*
And after all this? Nothing. Nothing at all.
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Electrostatic
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Electrostatic » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:52 am

Echo Barley wrote: I find it very easy to slip into trance listening to Psychonaut; no other Neph song has that effect. Perhaps it was the only one intended to achieve that ?
Psychonaut is definitely one of the Neph songs with very trance-like qualities and an overt theme of shamanism , but how about Blue Water?

I've always felt that the longer version of this song has an evocative and powerful effect when used in rites of magical transformation. "Move back, step outside yourself...".

IMHO definitely one of the most "occult" Nephilim songs.

"Laughter seems to be the only defense against the realization that one does not even have a real self."
[Peter J. Carroll - Liber Kaos]
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KaosCrow
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Re: Shamanism

Post by KaosCrow » Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:53 pm

I find Sumerland and Wail of Sumer...and there will your heart be also particular good too...
"Nothing is true, it's all a load of b*//*cks"
Hassan ali Baba
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Berith
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Berith » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:18 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8138665.stm just came across this if anyone is looking for a new job!! On topic honestly!
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KaosCrow
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Re: Shamanism

Post by KaosCrow » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:36 pm

Wow. The perfect Mother in Law job! I could think of a few hags that would suit to a tee.
"Nothing is true, it's all a load of b*//*cks"
Hassan ali Baba
Anath
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Anath » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:38 am

Morphic wrote:RIGHT!!



Any band that lists Crowley in their 'bibliography' is gonna get people talking about the Occult...

It might not be to everyone's taste and it certainly isn't going to have much bearing on the pub banter, followed by the mosh-pit and tower building, but who could deny Carl McCoy's interest in Numerology???! ...And the ensuing frustration that his music can't be released unless there's a full moon and a Z in the month!!!! :roll: *whistle*


Is it numerology he's interested in, or gematria of the semitic languages specifically? That would be interesting if he was analysing both hebrew and arabic.... but it's a tricky pasttime...
Anath
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Anath » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:46 am

Echo Barley wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanic_music

http://www.hulu.de/en/trance_siberia/mu ... manism.htm

Two very interesting articles. ( btw, I thought being interested in the Occult was par for the course for a Neph fan, even more than dressing in black and liking graveyards......)
Of all the paths I could have followed, shamanism seems to be the least structured, most accessible one. By that I don't mean the easiest - I mean, that you don't have to believe in anything other than other planes. I find it very easy to slip into trance listening to Psychonaut; no other Neph song has that effect. Perhaps it was the only one intended to achieve that ?

Windharps: can't afford one. But I did set up a range of bottles with varying volumes of water in them, that produces a similar sound. No trance-like effects though.

There's too much out there that is pure territory of the spirit for me to discount something as "rubbish", merely "not my thing". But there's a lot of scorn for people who say they have had OBEs, or can remember past lives, or who claim to have spoken with Gods. Yet Tarot and Horoscopes are accepted, and so are prophetic dreams. One set marks you psychic, the other, insane and delusional. One day I'll find out why, until then......gotta go, off to Never-never Land, ta-ra.
*cthulhu*

No no no....siberian "shamanism" is actually very structured ,and that has been well documented elsewhere besides Mircea Eliade's monumental effort.

as far as OBE's and past life visions I don't hold them in much regard as one is traumatically induced by shock and the other a willful practice which I think is more mysticism and less esoteric practice...but your mileage may vary.
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Echo Barley
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Echo Barley » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:21 pm

I meant least structured in terms of beliefs, rather than method.

OBEs and past lives - yes, most are forced. People do it in order to learn something about themselves, I guess, or because they're convinced they really are a reincarnation of Richard the Turd or Anne Boleyn. But what if you have the visions without any "help" ( including various substances such as obscure mushrooms or cheese at bedtime ). What about the dreams - Carl himself speaks about dreams of drowning that feel very different to how dreams usually feel to him. It's a shock, to dream like that. I also get those dreams.


What is your opinion about the so-called Akashic Records ? Do you believe in them ?
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Bau
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Bau » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:31 pm

I've been researching for a whle now, different cultures use of musc and sound and foudn these articles very interesting.

also wondering about Carl's definition of FOTN concerts as being 'shamanic' for him, and refered to them as "ceremonies , celebrations, rituals or whatever you want to call it" ( ~Carl's quote for the Orkus mag video, sound liek something he quote from read our discusion on DR about the subject) personaly I call it a concert. Because I dont realy see a conenction of a planned , scripted concert with people paying money to a shamanic ritual involving music which is for the most part a thing of pure improvisation, that is done for a specific event or purpose of healing etc by a spiritual leader for the sake of their community etc.

Also most beliefs, such as native american for example, and including my own, are that it is wrong to take money for that, though some will accept gifts, usualy they are refused or given to the needy in the community.
Though he personaly and others might find it a spiritual experience. I myself wouldnt nessesarily call it a shamanic 'ritual' in any real sence.

I am curious about definitions of shamanism, its often used as a sort of catch-all phrase to refer to a lot of different views on expressions of spiritualism and mysticism. I have my own unique views on it as well. I'm curious to hear from others as to what the term means to them.
Twist of fate wont give me a break and myself I'm slow and tired ~ COC
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Bau
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Bau » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:52 pm

also in conjunction with the question of varing veiws on what is shamanism, here are some articles with views on what is not.

http://www.manataka.org/page23.html

"Learning does not come from books, but is 'experiential', knowing is by doing. "-article
"these are just writings of men" -Carl

with these sentiments I agree.


http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.ph ... 587.0;wap2

One thing I tend to go agaisnt that is traditional in some cultures is psychoactive drugs. I have mixed feeling on their use but generaly dont agree with it. They are essentialy poisons generated by plants to protect themselves. ment to scramble up your thinking not enhance it.

opinions?
Twist of fate wont give me a break and myself I'm slow and tired ~ COC
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Bau
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Re: Shamanism

Post by Bau » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:57 am

gee I guess no one else is interested in these subjects anymore. *slinkys off pouting, with tail down*
Twist of fate wont give me a break and myself I'm slow and tired ~ COC
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