So it really pisses me off...

[ojopaj]

[rant mode: on]
<alcoholism rant, apologies>
[rant mode: off]

[wshaffer]

[rant mode: on]
Here goes McCoy, once again making money off the backs of the original band. McCoy didn't write a goddamned single note of the music of FotN before the breakup, yet the original band members won't even get a penny from Ceromonies. And here is everyone raving and drooling about the new live album, as if it has anything to do with the real FotN. Grrrrrrrrr
[rant mode: off]

Actually, as I understand it, the original band members should get royalties for any songs they were credited as songwriters on. It's probably a piffling amount of money, but honestly, I doubt that McCoy's getting rich off Ceromonies either.

As for it being the "real" FotN - this is hardly the first time a band has broken up and then continued with a radically changed lineup. If people are enjoying Ceromonies, why shouldn't they say so? Are they supposed to pretend that it's crap even if it's not?

[Dr Cerebus]

this is hardly the first time a band has broken up and then continued with a radically changed lineup.

The Cure
The Fall
Sisters of Mercy
Sugababes
Whitesnake

to name but a few...

[angry bob]

[rant mode: on]
Here goes McCoy, once again making money off the backs of the original band. McCoy didn't write a goddamned single note of the music of FotN before the breakup, yet the original band members won't even get a penny from Ceromonies. And here is everyone raving and drooling about the new live album, as if it has anything to do with the real FotN. Grrrrrrrrr
[rant mode: off]

Industry, mate... You gotta be a bit of a predator

I wonder what would be reaction like if the old members got together, employed new vocalist and called themselves FOTN... Obviously they won't do that cuz they're not interested in going back to the past...

[Rodthemaninblack]

[rant mode: on]
Here goes McCoy, once again making money off the backs of the original band. McCoy didn't write a goddamned single note of the music of FotN before the breakup, yet the original band members won't even get a penny from Ceromonies. And here is everyone raving and drooling about the new live album, as if it has anything to do with the real FotN. Grrrrrrrrr
[rant mode: off]

Actually, as I understand it, the original band members should get royalties for any songs they were credited as songwriters on. It's probably a piffling amount of money, but honestly, I doubt that McCoy's getting rich off Ceromonies either.

As for it being the "real" FotN - this is hardly the first time a band has broken up and then continued with a radically changed lineup. If people are enjoying Ceromonies, why shouldn't they say so? Are they supposed to pretend that it's crap even if it's not?

[rant mode: on]
Here goes McCoy, once again making money off the backs of the original band. McCoy didn't write a goddamned single note of the music of FotN before the breakup, yet the original band members won't even get a penny from Ceromonies. And here is everyone raving and drooling about the new live album, as if it has anything to do with the real FotN. Grrrrrrrrr
[rant mode: off]

Actually, as I understand it, the original band members should get royalties for any songs they were credited as songwriters on. It's probably a piffling amount of money, but honestly, I doubt that McCoy's getting rich off Ceromonies either.

As for it being the "real" FotN - this is hardly the first time a band has broken up and then continued with a radically changed lineup. If people are enjoying Ceromonies, why shouldn't they say so? Are they supposed to pretend that it's crap even if it's not?

Couldn't agree more, love Ceromonies, excellent from start to finish!

[markreed]

obvious troll is obvious.

The Cure. The Sisters Of Mercy. The Mission. Pop Will Eat Itself. Oasis. Nine Inch Nails. The Fall.

And so on...

[ojopaj]

<idiotic rant deleted>

[Invisible Goth]

Are you for real?

Have YOU asked any of the ex-members if they're getting/not getting royalties? No. Of course you haven't. In the UK there is at least one major organization that deals with royalty distribution. And with EMI's involvement, you bet they're getting their share

Did you BOTHER to read the liner notes of Ceromonies? Judging from what you dribbled, apparently not. There, in plain English, credits for all the songs.

Carl not a songwriter? Psychonaut? Last Exit? Why are you even here?

Troll? Yeah, you fit the bill mate. Look it up, thats exactly what you are. Plus a few other things

We don't care about your ill informed opinions

troll? seriously? give me a break. McCoy, who is clearly not much of a musician or songwriter, is profiting off the works of others. it matters nary a whit whether he calls himself by FotN or another name. why dont you ask the other band members if they are getting a penny of royalties from Ceromonies? that's what pisses me off. McCoy is cashing in on the reputation of four talented musicians, and most reviewers and fans are treating it like its somehow no different. if you disagree that's fine, but don't label me a troll for not falling on the McCoy worship bandwagon. let's at least call a spade a spade. this is not FotN this is McCoy, and there are four good musicians out there who have been screwed. at least McCoy could have the decency to acknowledge them, admit they wrote 100% of the music, and give them fair royalties.

[Don]

Did you BOTHER to read the liner notes of Ceromonies? Judging from what you dribbled, apparently not. There, in plain English, credits for all the songs.

Indeed, quite a number of songs are from Zoon and Mourning Sun, which obviously have nothing to to with the former five original members (yes, even Gary Whisker received an appropriate writing credit).

That said, on the subject of exploiting other people's work, I've always felt Fast Eddie Clarke should have received a writing credit for Phobia.

[Bau]

Is John Carter listed in the credits? I have not seen the DVD or CDs, but I am hearing disturbing things about him being edited out of most of the video footage...

[squishy]

McCoy, who is clearly not much of a musician or songwriter

That's utter nonsense.

Clearly? How do you know? How COULD you possibly know?

[markreed]

Yes, McCoy is profiting off the work of himself, been as he's been the singer in the band - whomever is in the band - for the past 26 years. Given that there is material from every FOTN/Nefilim record on Ceromonies, maybe, in fact, it's the people who haven't been in the band for 21 years that are profiting from the work by McCoy post '91.

[Enoch]

Don't even know whether any of the previous band members get royalties - I thought McCoy bought the rights on name and tracks after the split. Could be wrong though.

Be that as it may, I too think the OP is not correct in his rant here - I vastly prefer the old lineup, still it's not undue to make money with the music performed and recorded. The argument is completely fallacious anyway, or covers would never generate money for their interpreter.

[ojopaj]

<idiotic rant deleted>

[shackled]

Without McCoy's voice and lyrics there would be no Nephilim.

[squishy]

McCoy, who is clearly not much of a musician or songwriter

That's utter nonsense.

Clearly? How do you know? How COULD you possibly know?

read any interviews with the band members - they always said they wrote the music, then McCoy would come along behind with some lyrics. you will not find a single interview in the history of the band where they said McCoy contributed as much as a single chord change.

just FYI to answer your question.

btw some seem to think that my admittedly strong opinion about McCoy is somehow an attack on them. clearly that is not the case. if you disagree with me that's fine, but there is no reason to insult me or call me names etc. sheesh.

I don't think you're attacking me, I just think yo're expressing a deeply prejudiced and all in all very much unfounded view. The fact that McCoy didn't write music - if it is true at all, for there's no actual evidence here - in the (tediously romanticised) times of the old line-up by no means means he's been "clearly no musician or songwriter" since then. Judging by Zoon, MS and even Fallen, I'd say he's clearly a brilliant songwriter.

[wild bill buttock]

I doubt anyone will be giving up thier day job whether they get paid or not to be honest

[Mont Ventoux]

Without McCoy's voice and lyrics there would be no Nephilim.

Infact, both of them have been important in the same way.
We cannot take one part, the music or the voice and the lyrics (and the charism that pours from them, as the importance of the artwork ) choosing only one part to decide which has the priority. They stay together.

I think that Zoon or Mourning Sun are very good records but I think also that they would have been better with the old line up. The same subjects influence from the other side my opinion about Last Rites or Eden House.

[wild bill buttock]

I don't think there is very much doubt that on the first three albums, McCoy's contributions were no more than lyrics and vocal lines. As for MS and Zoon......Who knows exactly how much was Carl and how much did Carter contibute on MS, and likewise Hutchins, Rippin and Miles on Zoon or Tony Pettitt on Fallen?

Without McCoy's voice and lyrics there would be no Nephilim.

Righy ho. So had Carl never met Tony, Paul and Nod there still would have been Fields of The Nephilim then?
Being as Carlos was singing in reggae bands (according to the writings), Would The Neph have been a reggae band? Cthulu Rastafari anyone
And would anyone on this forum have been interested in a reggae band singing about Hebrew mythology? Like ccok they would!
IIRC the band's name came from a book on Hebrew mythology that Carl read whilst staying at Tony Pettitt's parents house. In which case, one could argue, without Mr and Mrs Pettitt senior there would be no Nephilim.

[Don]

Yawn. Been here before. Many times.
Can we just move on?