So it really pisses me off...

Discuss about the Nephilim, Nefilim, F.O.T.N. and other projects by Carl McCoy. Stay on-topic, all off-topic posts will either be deleted or moved to General Chat or elsewhere.

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Bau
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Bau » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:12 pm

wild bill buttock wrote:IIRC the band's name came from a book on Hebrew mythology that Carl read whilst staying at Tony Pettitt's parents house. In which case, one could argue, without Mr and Mrs Pettitt senior there would be no Nephilim.
you mean it wasn't Carl's mum's fault? and to think, she has been getting the blame all these years...
I guess you could go back and back , to the seller who sold them the book, to the publisher add infinitum. :wink:

I have to say I've heard simlar things, that Carl didn't write any of the music and did some of the arrangements of the written instrumental parts, just wrote the vocal parts and Lyrics, as you say, taken in snippets out of various books. He did say he collected them out of boredom...or for ideas?
Seems a similar approch as how he 'montaged' his art work for the sheerfaith stuff, inspired by other artists (see my post on this on NGD).

I guess it is down to the people involved if they want to talk about who recorded what and share that info. I'm always interested in the recording process myself, but sadly few interveiw delved into that much, they have always been more concern with asking McCoy info on the occult. :roll:

As far as copyrights and royalties, that is down to agreements and contracts. I do think everyone should get their fair credit. Its rather unfair and hurtful to not be given credit and acknowledgement for your work.
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Enoch » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:31 pm

wild bill buttock wrote: Cthulu Rastafari anyone *whistle*
Great, now I have pictures of dread-tentacles floating in my mind :lol:
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by markreed » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:15 pm

This one has been going on for 21 years now.

"I AM THE NEPHILIM!"

.... which is still a phrase I, and my aged friends, use in times to describe rampant egotism and often mockingly. But, in all seriousness, it's an ancient debate and one that has been kicked to death in this world.

I, on the other hand, look at this way : it may not be the original Nephilim lineup, but it is an authentic Nephilim experience.
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Ngie
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Ngie » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:59 pm

Enoch wrote:
wild bill buttock wrote: Cthulu Rastafari anyone *whistle*
Great, now I have pictures of dread-tentacles floating in my mind :lol:
Dread or red? :lol: Image

We are the nephilim! :P :oops:
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by blazebond » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:07 pm

D(r)ead or Alive !
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Ngie
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Ngie » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:45 pm

Left to be proven then the lyrics of She would defenitely not be Ghosts of Today but Go South Today!.. unless it's Go Soft To Day :roll: with a link to Mourning Su topic : Falling, like the morning sun is all about waking up and witnessing every morning with its rising light and soothing catching breath atmosphere
captivating us in enlightenment
we're left to take foot on the ground and to incarnate for each new day in our respective body and identity,
teared apart therefore mourning yet left with the whole day beginning to make our way and ideally meeting before the end of it with happiness. :)
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durak
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by durak » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:54 am

Yawn. Been here before. Many times.
Can we just move on?

This one has been going on for 21 years now.

"I AM THE NEPHILIM!"
i disagree with these.

This is a debate which has been going on last 20 centuries...
about; my dear christian fellows.
Should the Bible be mentioned everytime in credits, then.
St Peter in original line-up? Who cares.

Mr C is decently trying to make some pension here; FFS, he`s almost 60.

mr RO/F is not a fallen angel.
Не за что
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durak
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by durak » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:26 am

now i notice; markreed
Не за что
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markandre13
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by markandre13 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:49 am

Bau wrote:I have to say I've heard simlar things, that Carl didn't write any of the music and did some of the arrangements of the written instrumental parts
I've read that Yates, Wright, Pettitt, Wright were bubbling over with ideas and Carl choose what he seemed to fit with his. And didn't he already have a keyboard at home during the bands 1st incarnation?
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Blindman
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Blindman » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:42 am

Bau wrote:Is John Carter listed in the credits? I have not seen the DVD or CDs, but I am hearing disturbing things about him being edited out of most of the video footage...
Mr Carter Barely appears, other than in long shot.
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NorthernNephilim
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by NorthernNephilim » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:17 pm

John Carter is credidet, with his name Written wrong, though .....................................
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Bau
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Bau » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:30 am

NorthernNephilim wrote:John Carter is credidet, with his name Written wrong, though .....................................
written wrong???
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by ThomasB » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:31 am

NorthernNephilim wrote:John Carter is credidet, with his name Written wrong, though .....................................
…Gee, how complicated can it be to spell a name like John Carter ? *whistle* :mrgreen:
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NorthernNephilim
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by NorthernNephilim » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:41 am

according to CMC who wants to have everything perfect he left me a bit of thinking why typing mistakes are printed on the record cover, and the inlay picture is really tiny quality.
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Mark Anthony Quested
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Mark Anthony Quested » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:25 am

Dr Cerebus wrote:
wshaffer wrote:this is hardly the first time a band has broken up and then continued with a radically changed lineup.
The Cure
The Fall
Sisters of Mercy
Sugababes
Whitesnake

to name but a few... :mrgreen:
You can add AC/DC to that list, which has had a fluctuating line up over the years.
Guns and Roses
The 1986-1987 Pink Floyd (which was basically David Gilmour and session musicians, with meagre contributions from Rick and Nick)
Yours, aye!

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Mark Anthony Quested
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Mark Anthony Quested » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:30 am

wild bill buttock wrote:I don't think there is very much doubt that on the first three albums, McCoy's contributions were no more than lyrics and vocal lines. As for MS and Zoon......Who knows exactly how much was Carl and how much did Carter contibute on MS, and likewise Hutchins, Rippin and Miles on Zoon or Tony Pettitt on Fallen?
shackled wrote:Without McCoy's voice and lyrics there would be no Nephilim. 8)
Righy ho. So had Carl never met Tony, Paul and Nod there still would have been Fields of The Nephilim then?
Being as Carlos was singing in reggae bands (according to the writings), Would The Neph have been a reggae band? Cthulu Rastafari anyone *whistle*
And would anyone on this forum have been interested in a reggae band singing about Hebrew mythology? Like ccok they would!
IIRC the band's name came from a book on Hebrew mythology that Carl read whilst staying at Tony Pettitt's parents house. In which case, one could argue, without Mr and Mrs Pettitt senior there would be no Nephilim.
The material on "Fallen" was demo material recorded between 1997 to 1998, so the Wright Brothers are on that material as well. (Indeed, when Carl was contemplating releases "Sleepers", he met up with the Wright Brothers to discuss it, I think.)
Yours, aye!

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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Mark Anthony Quested » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:34 am

Ngie wrote:
Enoch wrote:
wild bill buttock wrote: Cthulu Rastafari anyone *whistle*
Great, now I have pictures of dread-tentacles floating in my mind :lol:
Dread or red? :lol: Image

We are the nephilim! :P :oops:
The problem with that photo is that Simon Rippin left NFD in about 2008/2009 and joined "The Eden House". And Tony Pettit has been working with The Eden House, mostly, these past few years.

Tony did play with NFD during the Camden gig in 2009, but I am not sure whether he is still recording with Peter "Bob" White; he may be.
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by Mark Anthony Quested » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:42 am

ojopaj wrote:[rant mode: on]
Here goes McCoy, once again making money off the backs of the original band. McCoy didn't write a goddamned single note of the music of FotN before the breakup, yet the original band members won't even get a penny from Ceromonies. And here is everyone raving and drooling about the new live album, as if it has anything to do with the real FotN. Grrrrrrrrr
[rant mode: off]
The FOITN past band members are credited in the composition credits, as are the Nefilim band members where applicable. Carl is credited as the lyric writer.

Carl McCoy remains on good terms with the Wright Brothers and bears no ill will towards Tony Pettit (whom he bumped into at Brixton, last October). He has not seen Peter Yates since 1991/1992. Carl does not really speak with the past band members, anymore; however, considering he now lives approx 120 miles from Hitchin, that's not surprising.

I do not know the full reasons why John Carter left FOTN, but John has remained professional about his parting of the ways; that's all I say on that.

Momentum Music, the company who handled the publishing of the FOTN and Nefilim music, are credited on the album. Presumably, any royalties due will be dealt with by EMI, Momentum and/or Transcend (Rob).

Carl has made it clear since 2003 approx that Fields of the Nephilim no longer comprises any of the original band members. So he is not exactly on a hiding to nothing. Carl is merely doing what Axl Rose, David Gilmour (in 1986), Andrew Eldritch, etc, have done and continued recording under their former band name.

Similiarly, there is nothing stopping the other former band members from performing Fields of the Nephilim songs. (Indeed, NFD have on occasions.)
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by angry bob » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:10 pm

NorthernNephilim wrote:according to CMC who wants to have everything perfect he left me a bit of thinking why typing mistakes are printed on the record cover, and the inlay picture is really tiny quality.
That is not the only thing when McCoy is short on perfectionism with Ceromonies. Making a concert dvd, naturally one should choose to expose properly everyone that contributes. Otherwise it's a bit disrespectful towards the audience innit... On the other hand this is not a footage of the gig, it's rather 60 min live clip. Only wonder what would it have looked like if there was one more member parting ways with the band... three blokes with faces + two ghost figures?;P

Everything seems clear now... why this thing didn't come out back in 2009 when it could have come out as a proper live footage of two night event. Carter left and McCoy simply put it on the shelf with no intent to release it. Then he figured out let's get more stuff filmed at the next gigs and maybe later we could do something about this ceromonies thingy.

Ok, we know now that was the plan to edit the whole thing in For Her Light video kinda style... Fine, but putting shots of the band actually playing and McCoy briskly tapping the floor during the keyboard intro from Psychonaut looks a bit stupid... ?

Then the 3 cds are cheap as chips. What more would you want :mrgreen:
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Re: So it really pisses me off...

Post by wshaffer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:46 pm

Mark Anthony Quested wrote: The problem with that photo is that Simon Rippin left NFD in about 2008/2009 and joined "The Eden House". And Tony Pettit has been working with The Eden House, mostly, these past few years.

Tony did play with NFD during the Camden gig in 2009, but I am not sure whether he is still recording with Peter "Bob" White; he may be.
There was an update on NFD's facebook page a while back indicating that Tony had recorded some bass tracks for demos for the upcoming NFD album. I assume he'll be involved in recording the actual album itself. With both NFD and The Eden House having albums due later this year, it must make for a bit of juggling, but Tony seems to be remaining involved with both bands for now.

Simon Rippin has been replaced on drums by Luca Mazzuconi.
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