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VisiGoth
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Post by VisiGoth » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:34 pm

Bau wrote:
gingerpazuzu wrote:mmmm...I can think of lots of things.....is that how you see Carl? as a crazed Crowley follower :?:
Carl didn't follow crowely so he says. Which is probably a good thing considering the whole sexmagick angle. I just don't see Carl as that type, then again you know what they say about the quiet ones *whistle* btw what exactly is the song 'hollow doll' about :?: :shock: :oops:
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Nonsense: Crowley was one of the more sober of Carl's numerous followers, and he violently rebelled against his master ;)
well one could hardly blame him :P
Why all the Crowley voices in the back rounds of songs then?

No I don't think he's really crazy (Crowley yes, wasn't he a spy for the British govmnt?) but here in America we reserve the right to persecute people for their political and religious beliefs.

Its in the Constitution, you know. :wink:
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Post by gingerpazuzu » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:43 pm

I think that Carl read alot of Crowley + used some Crowley recordings in some songs but I dont think he an actual follower.Also excerpts of recordings from movies have also been equally used as well on FOTN recordings,so Crowley is just one of many in that way.
Sometimes living in the UK has its advantages :wink:
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wild bill buttock
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Post by wild bill buttock » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:47 pm

And why is he dressed up as Crowley on the cover of That album?
VisiGoth
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Post by VisiGoth » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:52 pm

gingerpazuzu wrote:I think that Carl read alot of Crowley + used some Crowley recordings in some songs but I dont think he an actual follower.Also excerpts of recordings from movies have also been equally used as well on FOTN recordings,so Crowley is just one of many in that way.
Sometimes living in the UK has its advantages :wink:
Not to say I don't believe you but the song titles reflect an influence, Moonchild, New Gold Dawn etc. There are some phrases there.

But really tho Carl is the best metal vocalist going, I just go round and round with some of his words. I've been singing the lyrics wrong going on twenty one years! *notworthy*
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Post by gingerpazuzu » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:58 pm

wild bill buttock wrote:And why is he dressed up as Crowley on the cover of That album?

oh you mean Zoon,rumour has it your'e a bit of secret fan *whistle*

Undeniably he does have been influenced by Crowley but that doesn't necessarily mean you are an ardent follower..I guess the only person who can acurately answer it is the man himself :wink:
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Bau
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Post by Bau » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:27 am

gingerpazuzu wrote:

Undeniably he does have been influenced by Crowley but that doesn't necessarily mean you are an ardent follower..I guess the only person who can acurately answer it is the man himself :wink:
in which case you are right GP because he already answered this question about Crowley directly in the Hammer interview. He said he wan't.

and right too, just because you take samples of something doesn't have to mean anything except it fit what you wanted to use it for in the songs.

One of the few things I liked by Crowley was the love poem the sample I can think of were taken from - "At Sea" . Thats an EASY one. Isn't the title ironic given the nemo factor? *cthulhu*

http://www.todays-woman.net/famous-poetsid-1963.html

although I think some of the words are wrong in this translation from the link. I think it was supose to be 'self' not 'elf' :?: :roll:

I also disagree with the last line...great my ass! :evil: :evil: :evil: grroowlll
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wild bill buttock
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Post by wild bill buttock » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:37 am

You leave old Eddie alone. I like Crowley he was a cool hippy anarchist before it was all invented.
And Love under will is another Crowley quote BTW.
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Bourbakhi
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Post by Bourbakhi » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:15 am

he was a bit too "pudding eater cowboy" for me but i respect the alpinist and the great psychonaut he was (i mean insatiable drug fiend).
"In Carl We Trust"
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Dreadbear
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What!!!

Post by Dreadbear » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:22 pm

I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
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Bau
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Re: What!!!

Post by Bau » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:47 pm

Dreadbear wrote:I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
I've read this too , wasn't sure if it was true. If it is thats horrible. :evil:

In general I think a lot of his ideas and writings were, he certainly was no great mystic that for sure.

That fact that Carl has looked up to him and other associations I find very disturbing and disheartening. Well you know what they say - Show me your friends and I'll show you your future. Or mabee better -where you treasure is your heart will be also. Translation - if what you value is bullshit, your going to spend a lot of time shoveling. *whistle*
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BlackSun
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Re: What!!!

Post by BlackSun » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:48 pm

Dreadbear wrote:I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
what makes you think that Dreadbear? Never heard that rumour levelled at Crowley so I'm genuinely interested! A lot of the old accusations and rumours about Crowley are total rubbish by the way (although yes I agree that sex with small boys is an abomination).

@ Visigoth - As for the Crowley influences and Carl - since when does having an appreciation of someone's life/ work/ sense of style or anything else about a person turn you into a 'follower' of theirs?? Aside from anything else anyone with an interest in the occult would be hard pressed to NOT read something about or by Crowley, some of his ideas are quite interesting and its hardly surprising that another occultist might take some of those ideas on board. Still doesn't mean to say that you follow or worship another man though does it?
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BlackSun
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Re: What!!!

Post by BlackSun » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:00 pm

Bau wrote:
Dreadbear wrote:I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
I've read this too , wasn't sure if it was true. If it is thats horrible. :evil:

In general I think a lot of his ideas and writings were, he certainly was no great mystic that for sure.

That fact that Carl has looked up to him and other associations I find very disturbing and disheartening. Well you know what they say - Show me your friends and I'll show you your future. Or mabee better -where you treasure is your heart will be also. Translation - if what you value is bullshit, your going to spend a lot of time shoveling. *whistle*
Bau why are you so quick to judge a dead person purely based on speculation and rumour which is itself nearly 100 years old?

In common with the vast majority of occultists/witches of earlier times a good deal of Crowleys writings are in code (e.g in Magick in theory and practise Crowley mentions sacrificing a human boy child, he's actually referring to a sex magic practice of retaining semen rather than slitting the throat of a young child) - a good deal of Crowleys writings are pure rubbish written for money and designed to fascinate the gullible and amuse the sceptics.

Maybe you're better off sticking to the comforting homilies instead of broadening your horizons though *whistle*
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Post by angry bob » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:01 pm

wild bill buttock wrote:And why is he dressed up as Crowley on the cover of That album?
Crowley - the great beast... Zoon - beast from Greek
Besides he looks cool on that one :wink:
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Bau
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Re: What!!!

Post by Bau » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:21 pm

BlackSun wrote:
Bau wrote:
Dreadbear wrote:I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
I've read this too , wasn't sure if it was true. If it is thats horrible. :evil:

In general I think a lot of his ideas and writings were, he certainly was no great mystic that for sure.

That fact that Carl has looked up to him and other associations I find very disturbing and disheartening. Well you know what they say - Show me your friends and I'll show you your future. Or mabee better -where you treasure is your heart will be also. Translation - if what you value is bullshit, your going to spend a lot of time shoveling. *whistle*
Bau why are you so quick to judge a dead person purely based on speculation and rumour which is itself nearly 100 years old?

In common with the vast majority of occultists/witches of earlier times a good deal of Crowleys writings are in code (e.g in Magick in theory and practise Crowley mentions sacrificing a human boy child, he's actually referring to a sex magic practice of retaining semen rather than slitting the throat of a young child) - a good deal of Crowleys writings are pure rubbish written for money and designed to fascinate the gullible and amuse the sceptics.

Maybe you're better off sticking to the comforting homilies instead of broadening your horizons though *whistle*
'


I read some of his works, I said I don't like them, I'm entitled to my opinion. just like the sexmagik practice you described and the whole thing. Since you seem to know about the subject - the lyrics "let it spill from my mouth, sweet nectar for a thousand young." what is this then? And you just confirmed what I just said "a good deal of Crowleys writings are pure rubbish written for money " Rubbish most of it I would say.


what can I say not terribly familiar with the subject of code *whistle*

mabee its not that I'm not broadening my horizon's, mabee I see things differently because my horizons are on a different dimension.

*cthulhu*
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squishy
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Post by squishy » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:29 pm

I'd hate to state the obvious, but referring to somebody doesn't necessarily mean one is following them, trying to lick their arse or support it - it doesn't have to mean one wants to say a nice "hello" or even smile in their direction.

You may refer to anything for any reason, and to allude to something to subvert it, derail or parody is, in contemporary literature at least, much more common than traditional "positive" references. And you may of course assume an actively ambivalent stance, buth continuing and dismantling the thing - or "person" - you're alluding to.

I'd say - were I to speculate - that McCoy is in constant dialogue or debate with Mr Crowley, always on the verge of a passionate argument or, occasionally, violently beyond that verge. Then plates shatter and glass shards lie all over the kitchen floor ;) It seems that Spare is much more likely to be an occultist McCoy's sympathetic towards - one who generates mostly positive feedback - than Crowley, who'd be more of McCoy's esoteric anti-hero, repsonsible for some of the negative feedback.

But these are gross oversimplifications at best. I'm positively sure McCoy has never been a follower of Crowley, and I don't believe he's anything close to being Spare's follower either
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Re: What!!!

Post by gingerpazuzu » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:51 pm

BlackSun wrote:
Dreadbear wrote:I thought Crowley was I child abuser, having sex with small boys...that´s disgusting according to me.
what makes you think that Dreadbear? Never heard that rumour levelled at Crowley so I'm genuinely interested! A lot of the old accusations and rumours about Crowley are total rubbish by the way (although yes I agree that sex with small boys is an abomination).

@ Visigoth - As for the Crowley influences and Carl - since when does having an appreciation of someone's life/ work/ sense of style or anything else about a person turn you into a 'follower' of theirs?? Aside from anything else anyone with an interest in the occult would be hard pressed to NOT read something about or by Crowley, some of his ideas are quite interesting and its hardly surprising that another occultist might take some of those ideas on board. Still doesn't mean to say that you follow or worship another man though does it?
:lol: :lol: :lol: *notworthy* *notworthy* *notworthy* well put BlackSun *cthulhu*
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Post by gingerpazuzu » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:52 pm

Bau wrote:
gingerpazuzu wrote:

Undeniably he does have been influenced by Crowley but that doesn't necessarily mean you are an ardent follower..I guess the only person who can acurately answer it is the man himself :wink:
in which case you are right GP because he already answered this question about Crowley directly in the Hammer interview. He said he wan't.

and right too, just because you take samples of something doesn't have to mean anything except it fit what you wanted to use it for in the songs.

One of the few things I liked by Crowley was the love poem the sample I can think of were taken from - "At Sea" . Thats an EASY one. Isn't the title ironic given the nemo factor? *cthulhu*

http://www.todays-woman.net/famous-poetsid-1963.html

although I think some of the words are wrong in this translation from the link. I think it was supose to be 'self' not 'elf' :?: :roll:

I also disagree with the last line...great my ass! :evil: :evil: :evil: grroowlll
I'm exceptionally fond of the poem too *notworthy* *notworthy*
Easy :lol: :lol: :wink:
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Bau
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Post by Bau » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:30 pm

I wonder about this line too:

"Such lights she gives as guide my bark;"

bark? when I listened to the recording I thought the word was 'path'. But mabee I'm wrong. I might venture to say some barking lessons might have done him good. Spare might have given him roaring ones. I liked Spare much more than Crowley, he seemed more sincere but just as cracked, confused. Though he certainly was a therianthrope, I don't think he was at peace with it.

"Austin Spare died in London on May 15, 1956 at he age of 70. The greatest magickian par excellence, who could do or be whatever he believed — chose nothing, and spent his latter years alone with his canvas and his beloved cats. "There is only one diversion for misery and that is intoxication." "

http://www.simoniff.com/zos_kia/index.html

he could do or be whatever he believed? Realy? And so he ended his life alone with his cats. But he for all his great magic , did he realy become one of them? Or understand anything? with a quote like that I would say no. Poor man. I get the impression that he ended up very DISenchanted. Not his fault realy too much human influence twisted him up IMHO.

realy its like that 23 enigma thing. Realy I think he would have been better off studying mathematics...

"...there are beings of intelligence and power of a far higher quality than anything we can conceive of as human; that they are not necessarily based on the cerebral and nervous structures that we know, and that the one and only chance for mankind to advance as a whole is for individuals to make contact with such Beings." Aleister Crowley

if thats true they are laughing their asses off...... not that they necessarily have asses.

if these entities aren't based on the cerebral nervous structures, then any sexmagik is pretty useless and you can't make contact with them that way. I bet Lamb was saying to him"would you stop jerking off an listen to what I am trying to tell you, you stupidnitwitts!"
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Post by Lord Mureth » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:34 pm

Bau wrote:
if thats true they are laughing their asses off...... not that they necessarily have asses.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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squishy
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Post by squishy » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Lord Mureth wrote:
Bau wrote:
if thats true they are laughing their asses off...... not that they necessarily have asses.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Honestly, I think you folks simply fail to recognize the transcendent nature of an arse. No eschatology without scatology! No Uranus without anus!
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